all been trained to the work, and there was not the slightest expense for bricklaying or any. thing of that kind. I would therefore just throw onf the suggestion that if the labour of prisoners is to be utilised it might be utilised in making their own gaol.
I
The ACTING CHIEF JUSTICE-Your Ex- cellency, I was not aware this subject was to be disoussed to-day; had I been I would bave re- freshed my memory with regard to what took place before the gaol committee. I think none of us can have the slightest doubt whatever, and I entirely agree with the hon. member who has just sat down, that the separate system is the only efficient system of gaol discipline, and 1 think there is not the slightost doubt that for many reasons it would be the most deterrent system we could adopt for Chinese. If shut up in a cell for some time alone they would think twice before they brought themselves a second time within grasp of the law. It was a question we considered in the gaol committee, though it was not quite within the scope of our inquiry. We took great pains to go into it. Mr. Price very kindly gave as his services and wo found that by altering some of the wings of the gaol about seventy or eighty cells could be provided. Well, wo took upon ourselves to ro commend that, although, of course, it was en- tirely insufficient for the whole criminal popula- tion of this place; but at the same time we did not think it right to put Mr. Price to the trouble and expense of providing estimates, because we did not know whether it met the views of Sir Arthur Kennedy and whether it would be adopted tall. I must say, with regard to the remarks of the gentleman who has just sat down, about. deportation, I cannot conceive there is any cruelty in deporting a man to his own country. There fore, as far as the mere removal from this Colony goos, there can be no harm in it When it was accompanied by branding it was a doubtful question, especially when the branding was on a part of the body when it could be readily seen; at the same time there are parts of the body where it could be placed without being so observable, but I do not know that it is necessary, with the system of photo- graphy the police have for their identification. Again, with regard to deportation the hou. mem. ber seems to think it merely accumulates a nur- ber of vagabonds across the water ready at a moment's notice to pounce upon us here. admit that is possible, but at the same time I think if very severe measures are adopted when they are caught here they may be induced to remain in their own country. 1 must say I think it is worthy of reconsideration whether deportation after all is not a very good system indeed. I only wish to allude to one other thing and that is about gaol labour. That is a question we considered very much indeed before the com- mittee. We tried to consider every possible means of employing the prisoners in useful abour but there were so many reasons why it was very difficult indeed to suggest a form of labour which would keep them employed and at the same time he remunerative. I don't think I need go into the matter at very great length now, but it is really a very difficult subjoot. I understand we shall have an opportunity of discussing this at another time, and then I shall have an oppor- tunity of expressing my views more fully. With regard to the removal of the gaol, I think every ono would be glad if it could be removed. I pre- ; suure the hon. member's suggestion as to removing the gaol to another place refers to Stonecutters' Island, but when we considered that questiou the extreme convenience of bringing prisoners backwards and forwards was found to be so great. that we did not venture to recommend it. That was a subject beyond our inquiry, but we cousi dered it and thought the plan of removal could hardly be adopted owing to the great expense which would be incurred in transferring the pri soners backwarks and forwards. There are many ways of enlarging the gaol. One is to pull down the Police Courts. That would give a very largo space indeed which could be made use of; and with regard to the Police Courts they might very well, I think, be placed in the build- ing of the Supreme Court, provided accommoda- tion could be found for the other departments, which now occupy a part of the building, The convenience of the Police must of course be con- i suited to a certain extent, and it is an jumensc convenience to them to be so close to the gaol as to be able to have prisoners transferred at once to the gaol and back again. That, howver, is a luxury very rarely enjoyed in other places. In- deed, I do not know any place where it exists; and the distance is so short from the Supreme
Court that I think if it is required to provide fresh Police Courts accommodation coall very well be found there.
Hon. W. KeswICR-If I may be permitted, I understand twelve months ago an item was inserted in the estimates for the adaptation ofe er- tain portions of the gaol to the separate systoni. I think the expression of opinion at that moot- ing was wholly, as it is at this meeting, in favour of the separate system and that a trial should be made.
The ACTING COLONIAL SECRETARY-With your Excellency's permission, I should like to inform the Council of a matter connected with the question of gaol accommodation. In 1862 I was called upon to furnish Sir Hercules Robin- son with a report having reference to the im provement of the Police. One great difficulty was to obtain some suitable accommodation for! quartors, and reflecting upon that particnlar | subject it struck me that two great bouefits could be secured. One was the appropriation of the area now occupied by the Police Barracks, but which at that time was intended to form an area for gaol accommodation--that it should be given up to the police, and that a new prison for long sentenced prisoners should be constructed at Stone-entter's Island. That plan was ultimately! carried out by Sir Hercules Robinson, and al though some mischances occurred, which I am sure by no possibility could occaragain, arising in some measure from too great economy and having imperfect tools to work with--the scheme met with disadvantages which, as I said before, are not likely to occur again. This gaol affected the particular object of keeping the criminal classes from Victoria in a place where they had no op- portunity even of looking at that world which gave them pleasure. They were hardly worked. and I believe a rorival of that system would tend to remove from
the very great dilicnities that now beset us both as to the management and the removal of the criminst classes. The financial question is to some extent involved, but the financial question is uct the chief question. The question is to obtain the power of reducing our criminal class, beside which mers cust is perfectly socondary. It is true the scheme was most unfortunate; but I think that had the plan been carried out, had its faults been removed, had its management been male perfect. Stone. cutter's Island Gaol would have been found most effective, if not thoroughly effective, and its object would have been attained by the reduction of the criminal class. I held that opinion in 1862 and I continue to hold it at the present time. I don't think I am at all in error in patting these conclusions before you. I believe that as a matter of cost. the cost of enlarging our present gaol, accompanied, as it wonid be, with the certain discomfort of having in the midst of our population an establishment which carries with it undoubted evils, must for a great part of the question. The removal of the gaol to a place like Stonecutter's Island where its enlarge. ment can at any time be effected, without any cost for land, recotamends itself to our consideration. The cost of making extensive alterations in the limited area of the present gaol renders it, I think, almost impracticable. I have looked at the various schemes proposed; some of them recommend themselves for their economy, but if economy is taken into consideration too much utility is always to he found wanting. I have told you the plain unvarnished tale as to Stonecutter's Island Gaol. I think it may fairly come within the consideration of the honorable Council, and I am prepared most firmly and conscientiously to advocate it as the ous thing more likely to reinove our present evils than any other that suggests itself to my mind--I do this, gentlemen, because I think it is due to the gentleman, Sir Hercnles Robinson, who carried out that scheme, to say that the burden that was thrown upon him of having carried out so expensivo, unnecessary, and almost foolish a system as building a gaol over at Stonecutter's Island should he shared by its initiator. I have never regretted that I ang- gested to Sir Hercules Robinson the ad- visability of building a penal gaolat Stonecutter's: Island, and I certainly advocate its adoption at the present moment. With regard to cost, I certainly think that with the employ- ment of prisoners in preparing the material, utilising the fittings of the present gaol, the sule of part of the area now occupied by the gaol, and sundry other things which would prac- tically recommend themselves to the officers who would have to carry out the work, regarding economy as a necessary factor, undoubtedly the cost would be far less than enlarging the gaol by
323
No comments yet.
Private notes are available after approval.